We have Oklahoma flagstone and several pieces show terrible spalling from the chlorine pool.

Kevin did a stellar job, not only alerting us of the situation, but he stayed with us for nearly 30mins, looking for our dog. But it branches off the main street, which is paved and has a sidewalk.

Do any pool contractors have any advice on how to solve this problem? Currently I do the Commercial sales and support for Aqua Cal (Heat Pumps) and AutoPilot. SECRET #3 Salt water systems require cell replacement every 2 to 3 years at a cost of $500-$800. You can actually do this for the same or a lesser cost than a saltwater system and it is greener more natural alternative with less upkeep cost compared to salt cells that have to be replaced every 4-6 years.

Both the temperature change of the clay as well as the salt molecule can cause pressure on the rock and can allow it to break/crack/erode/pit, etc. The wall panels can rust badly, even all the way through if it continues long enough. If not cleaned for six months, four expensive things occur, (even with the unit turned off the scale still forms): It is also very important to watch the salt level in the pool. The Doheny branded Dolphin Saturn is on sale right now for about $545. A true example of customer experience excellence and committment - not only in standard duties, but going the extra mile where and when needed. One suggestion has been to remove the ledger at the water line and replace with porcelain tile. to that mix. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Chlorinating with a salt water chlorinator is similar to chlorinating with liquid chlorine-- they both have a high pH (11.7). Things you should know (and that well explain): Are salt water systems a problem for concrete/gunite pools? Most autocover manufacturers now void their track warranty if a salt system is used. Some of the flagstone in my coping has lost a few layers from flaking but I don't have any reason to think that salt caused it. I sincerely doubt, unless some chemical reaction with what impurities are in the water happen, that any deposits like sodium, reformed salt, etc, would create a meaningful stress on the coping, contributing to it's break down.

So just like with a regular chlorine pool, you have to monitor the water chemistry regularly. Thats just from the occasional. Properly maintain your salt water pool, and youre good to go. Tile in pool bath doesnt match - how do I convince my tile contractor? Did your pool builder tell you they are installing a sacrificial anode to minimize the damaging effects of increased galvanic activity in the water due to the conductive salt? pool biz The convenience of having your own beautiful glimmering oasis of refreshing pool water just a few Sometimes people will advocate salt chlorine generators as no-maintenance. | However, if you have metal wall panels, beware. Besides sealing the stone, it is also advisable and an added precaution to hose down the coping at the end of any swim day with fresh water. Learn what they bring to a project. Not that Ive ever done that, of course. Nick had Clayton assigned to the repair and he was on it quickly. The high amperage output of the cell will add between 500 to 1000 watts per day or 1.0 KW to 1.5 KW to your electric demand and monthly bill, at .11 per watt, this is $5 to $11 every month. Copyright 2022 ECOsmarte Planet Friendly Inc. All Rights Reserved. Sure, you could just plop down on a blanket. Any other experiences out there? Wood, stone and concrete make these hot tubs fit right in with nature, Our July gardening guides take the guesswork out of summer watering, pruning and planting. pool biz I myself live on an ominous back roadno sidewalk or concrete, just loose gravel and abandoned houses. too much chlorine or saltin ANY pool will damage the pool and equipment. I also have only seen photo's on websites that sell alternatives hmmmmmm. When the salt was in the water, it was dissolved into Na and Cl. Water in a concrete pool wears at the plaster all day every day. SECRET #4 You must worry about the pH with a salt system and do regular maintenance or you will destroy the pool and have zero recourse.

While the shapes and sizes are less customized, most people can find a model that's perfect for them. It had a problem with algae, which is normal this time of year, and he worked hard to make sure the problem was taken care of and that our pool sparkles. However, the chlorine levels could be five or ten times higher than they should be, and youd have no idea. Salt + water + concrete. Some natural materials are inappropriate to use with any pool and others should probably be protected with a sealer. More waystoshop: Call: (612) 866-1200, or.

(preferably a few years old) Are other stones recommended? - Shannon Hill, Copyright 2022 River Pools | All rights reserved. My most degraded piece of flagstone is in a path away from the pool with no salt water exposure at all. Don't do it, my friend. Now add asalt chlorine generatorto that mix. Contact I can say that none of these contractors, having damage to their customers pools, were AutoPilot dealers. Unless you spilled acid this would not happen by spilling. You are better off having a chlorinator too large for your pool, one that is undersized is a complete waste of money. (This is the reason places with high clay in their soil - like Houston - have ground water pipes burst - because of the natural swelling/contraction during temperature/water changes in the soil. I myself live on an ominous back roadno sidewalk or concrete, just loose gravel and abandoned houses. Some of the stones are actually turning to powder! I still love the flagstone look but I definitely think I was misled on which flagstone will work well with a salt pool. Translation: you'll need to resurface the pool that much faster, which costs a pretty penny. Fancy. I have seen stone with a significant iron content cause rust stains and iron presence in water where the fill had none. Well done Blue Science. The waters clear and you dont smell the chlorine, so youre under the impression that its okay. Concrete Pool Information. Since salt water pools produce chlorine, the sanitizing effectiveness of the system is impacted by changes in temperature, bather load, sunlight and rainfall. The automated system shows us our salt level (provided that the salt cell is working). On the plus side, you will not have to do that again in the near future. They are all fine after 10+ years of salt water. Typically northern/eastern states have harder flagstones than southern. Salt water can easily sneak through cracks or edges of the liner and wear away at the metal. JavaScript is disabled. Even flagstone from the same area will vary considerably in its susceptibility to degardation from salt exposure. pools salt water pool convenient If youd like to learn more about the different types of pools, Comparing Fiberglass, Concrete, and Vinyl Liner Pools in the Modern Age. You will end up adding acid periodically for example. Certainly, this would be a national epidemic, if it were damaging. rather than relying on information on this website, which is not intended to be a final The use of soft stones by a consumer as coping is usually discouraged because it won't last. Close your eyes and picture the sidewalk on your street.

Common sensethink of what salt does to a concrete sidewalk. Product specifications are believed to be accurate at the time of original publication. We favor a robotic one due to the size, irregular shape, and pebbletec texture of our pool. I live in Los Angeles. "Improper chemical use" will void any warranty, a system employed by portable spa manufacturers on delaminated shells and first year heater failure. Although the salt water in the pool may not be corrosive at levels of 3000-3500 ppm, when that water hits the coping and evaporates, it leaves pure salt behind. I have a salt water pool and put in what is represented as quartzite ledger stone three years ago. Note that zero maintenance is not on that list. If you have polymer wall panels, the salt wont affect them either. This sidewalk featurestrip hazardsandaesthetic issues:multiple cracks, salt stains, littleholes andetching, and (bonus) a set of footprints from a small dog. SECRET #1 Salt water systems corrode the pool equipment. The contractors are mostly in Arizona and Texas. It was nice to know that he was on top of things for us. Before you buy a device and throw 500 to 700 lbs of salt in your pool, remember an old term - "Salting the Earth", 2000 years ago mankind knew better. How much will salt shorten the lifespan of a concrete pools surface? Because that is VASTLY different than the concentrations in pool water. It was installed at the water line as well as on the two foot wall above the water line but below the coping. Weve sold several thousand systems in South Florida alone and I cannot think of a single deck damaged pool that was contributed to the salt system. Become a Dealer or Franchise See how that might be an issue? The Fact - When the pH and alkalinity get out of balance, the chlorine is much less effective. Have you resealed it since the initial application? Doheny sells discounted clearance and return models.

The recommended chlorine levels in the pool will not damage anything. There won't be "leakage" just very slight getting wet at the surface (you might notice a change in color when the stone gets wet.). The reason is simple: TFPC (Trouble Free Pool Care) is a methodology, not a product that you must purchase. The electrician, Zach, reassured me that everything was taken care of with the electrical and reprogrammed my lights with me after the repairs. Waterfall is different stone, can't remember. It's effect isn't that significant. Your home swimming pool can be anything you want it to be. The Facts - The salt itself has issues of attacking the cement in the plaster and deck materials. I assume quartzite does not need any treatment/sealing?If we go with a travertine (Turkish I guess), does anybody know how often it needs to be sealed? I have never knowingly seen damaged coping or stone work attributable to any deposits left from evaporation in salted pools. I have white river rock coping stones. If this were a salt issue, the problems would be of national scale. Iron is a metal, as is sodium and as such, is soluble in water. To the best of our knowledge, salt water systems dont have any adverse reactions with the gelcoat surface of a fiberglass pool. I was the Technical Support Manager and R & D director for the last 5 years at AutoPilot. perfectly complements your backyard environment.

There are both good and bad things about the automated system. The chlorine will gas off if there is evaporation.

The salt doesnt really affect the liner of the pool. pergola garten groem stagno basen wygoda ogrodowy entspannen gazebo lusso afgeworpen starbene No problems. It discusses cost, design, durability, installation basically any aspect youll want to compare if you make a big pool decision. It is recommended that you try to keep the salt level at the higher end of the manufacturer's scale, for your specific model. We also operate in other areas of the country through our nationwide dealers. Concrete has its own set of issues, but lets think about those salt stains and etches for a moment. Some pool builders are now refusing to build any salt water pools with cream limestone or taupe coping. additional question to all the pool builders in regards to salt and flagstone. Cantilever designs simply disappear as the stone dissolves away. It really does not matter that these same issues have been around much longer than salt system, but salt has been the convenient scapegoat. Poured in place concrete is slightly porous and so are most brick pavers, yet they will last and last. I have bitteroot flagstone, we have a solid ring around (1 inch widee) the hot tub (that overflows into pool) and we get rings at different water levels when the rain comes bc we didn't put anutomatic drain in (since it was against code) but I wish we had. |, Pool Maintenance Well done Kevin B. Over time the salt will attack any area the water evaporates at. Those replying may want to include the location as well as what type of flagstone you installed. We make sure that your enviroment is the clean comfortable background to the rest of your life.We also deal in sales of cleaning equipment, machines, tools, chemical and materials all over the regions in Ghana. There is no maintenance on a salt water pool. (Obviously this area needs a little cleaning.) | Find it very relaxing and soothing. SWG's have been the rage for the past 10 to 12 years but are now seeming to fall out of favor with the buyers.For the past decade 95%+ of my new starts have been salt. As an extreme example, while very porous, talc, the softest measure on the hardness scape, isn't soluble in water but will erode rather quickly due to being bumped and scraped. Are Salt Water Systems Bad for Concrete Pools? I am curious to hear your experiences as consumers whether you have had issues with stone erosion or discoloration with a salt pool. Please consider. There have been absolutely no problems with any of the stone. However, the chlorine levels could be, just like its easier to do one load of laundry a week rather than letting it pile up for a month and doing four loads in one day. schechter I'm in LA and have a similar rock disintegrating prob.

Salt water can be up to 5 times more abrasive on plaster than traditional chlorine water. ", "Contacted Nick requesting that the equipment be reviewed/repaired. Unrelated but also uncool:If salt sits on the pool surfacewithout dissolving, it canstainthe surface inminutes. It is best to run between 7.4-7.6 when using chlorine. You will get much more visibility by. Also cyanuric acid levels must be maintained or the chlorine will quickly dissipate out of the pool. Unfortunately, too many builders and retailers sell these systems as a "set it and forget it" solution. "River Pools" is a service mark of River Pools and Spas, Inc. and River Pools Fiberglass, LLC. Remember, too much chlorine/salt in ANY pool will damage the pool and equipment.

As I say when guiding my friends through online dating: we need more data. The water (with dissolved salt) flows inbetween the clay particles.remember were talking microscopic here. Sanitation Support Services has been structured to be more proactive and client sensitive. Thats just one manufacturer in the salt chlorination industry. But just because you live in the south doesn't mean that your builder/contractor didn't use a northern type of flagstone. Warsaw, VA 22572, River pools was a CYANIDE based, the CYANURIC acid is euphemistically referred to as conditioner or stabilizer and must be maintained between 35 and 85 ppm. The conclusion I'm coming to here is, although there are many theories why this may or may not be true, out of a body of several thousand pool owners there is no existence evidence that this problem actually happens Sorta like aliens. This must be carried out before the calcium build up within the cell housing becomes one big block.

solution We never sealed anything.

The Facts - It is essential when selecting a salt chlorinator to oversize the unit for your pool. The scientific reason is because the clay particles are very small. Not that, , beware. You might want to start a brand new thread with this question instead of tacking on to a 5 year old thread. The liner will eventually leak and corrode the metal panels, which is the structural support of the pool. A pool can be everything from He made it seem easy.

Remember, too much salt in any pool is a huge no-go. Because of this I am a fan of an ozonator and a mineral pack to go virtually chlorine free. You still have to test the water or take it to get tested for stuff like pH. Thats just from the occasional weather maintenance, like the trucks that spray salt all over the road and the sidewalks (and your car if youre driving behind them). So now Im dealing with large commercial systems on small and large public pools, such as the Ritz Carlton Resorts, Hyatt Resorts, Four Seasons, Marriott Hotels, etc.

We have used Dolphin brand, but I hear aqua bots are nice too. The cell life shortens as the high voltage/amperage cannot penetrate the scale on the plates. But honestly, theres, Not having to lug around giant buckets of chlorine, They both use chlorine to keep the pool clean. And I would highly recommend this company for its great customer service. than if you keep it at the medium to low range. It is sometimes a little slippery (mostly to toddlers) when very wet. Pool builders have said that they have had to replace a significant amount of both these types of coping this past year. The sodium and chloride ions that are formed are larger than a salt molecule. The wall panels can. The difference is in, So just like with a regular chlorine pool, you have to, of the spectrum or off the charts, it will react with the surface. Not only does Kevin D look after our pool very well. We have a four year old pool with salt. The grout was just installed today a. It is being practiced by thousands of pool owners just like you. Occasional algaecide, clarifier, stain and scale control and shock will be needed with a salt chlorine pool (maybe slightly more than a stabilized "puck" pool) and only the handling of the solid chlorine is avoided. I have used zincs to reduce, close to elimination, these reactions. A chlorinator too large can be turned back or run for less time each day, making the cell last longer.

SECRET #6 Salt systems are damaging to the environment and have been banned on all pools in areas such as Los Angeles County.

The stones were not sealed. Salt systems have been around in the US since 1984, even longer in Australia (1960s). Theres little external evidence to suggest you need to check things out. The salt water will corrode the anchors overtime and a "safety event" will be pending. I've built at least 1000 pools with salt water chlorine generation.Here's been my experiences;Kiln fire swimming pool coping bricks do fine and so do their pavers that match.Harder/denser stones such as Oklahome Wister, Tennessee Crab orchard, Pennsylvania Lilac, Quartzite, etc do OK.Softer rocks like Arizona Rosa, Buff, Peach, Sedona Red etc don't do well at all, this also goes for Mexican Travertine coping bricks such as Noche, Durango, etc.Turkish Travertine does better than Mexican Travertine.I suggest sealing soft rocks and travertine.Slate coping bricks fall right in the middle, they're a coin toss.Don't use any unsealed flagstone for waterline tile, they'll show poorly within a year or two.When placed as patio decking dark flagstone, home bricks, and concrete patio pavers show chalkiness from evaporated salt due to splash out. Big ol caveat: too much chlorine or saltin ANY pool will damage the pool and equipment. A common problem is corrosion at the ladder. | Website Design by IMPACT.

steps from your back door is truly a splendid thing. But I like: the clean lines; the matching colour tones in the differing materials; and focusing on the blue pool. The pool becomes a swamp when the cell scales up. than saltwater.

The chlorine level and skin absorption of the chlorine is still based on the same 1-3 ppm chlorine residuals found, dioxin forms (as do chloramines) and the backwash water contains 3000 ppm or more chlorides. We are a registered 501(c)3 non-profit that is funded by user donations.

Dont do it. Installation of our fiberglass pools is done through an independent dealer. That is my question too. GFCI switch would not re-set and allow pool light to come on and heater was malfunctioning. One common problem is that homeowners tend not to test their pools' pH and alkalinity enough. In flagstones with a high percentage of clay (can be any color) the flagstone is more susceptible to salt water erosion/damage. Or just due to repeatedly getting wet? Hope it helps you. Salt gradually wears away at the cementitious finish. Get in touch with us, and well be happy to help you on your pool journey! Sanitation Support Services is a multifaceted company that seeks to provide solutions in cleaning, Support and Supply of cleaning equipment for our valued clients across Africa and the outside countries.

What indicates that salt caused the damage and not that the damage would have occurred anyway? specification. ", More Pool Maintenance Nuggets of Wisdom . I agree I am not sure I have ever seen any pictures outside of marketing material. Will this prevent further erosion? A low salt level (less than 2000 ppm) will cause oxygen production and damage the platinum group metals on the cell anode, therefore, shortening the life of the cell. If not, maybe you should hold off on salt until you can find a company that will be able to provide you with better council as to what chlorine derived from salt can do to your pool. No but I have seen what chlorine can do to sidewalks.

I suspect over time rain does more damage to concrete than pool water level chlorine concentration ever will, I know my outdoor concrete that was poured at the same time my indoor pool was (built in 1980) shows much more deterioration than the concrete decking around the pool does. Most people with salt systems will run their pH from 7.8-8.0. , like the trucks that spray salt all over the road and the sidewalks (and your car if youre driving behind them). If you would like to start educating yourself about how salt works, what is galvanic corrosion, and most importantly what you can do to mitigate its damaging effects, then please read this article on Salt Water Chlorine Generator Reviews. Flagstone is a very general term. The majority of surface issues in salt pools are due to, . Now if our saltwater pools where as salty as the ocean then it would be a different story. We have exactly the same concern as we really want a salt water pool but have heard and read different opinions on the effects salt water will have on a nice stone deck (e.g. Wish I could help you. I will start a new thread, Here is the link to my recent posting regarding salt water pools and disintegrating rocks: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3413466/m=23/need-help-salt-sys-pool-is-disintegrating-decorative-boulders, Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros. It'll stayextra easy to manage just like its easier to do one load of laundry a week rather than letting it pile up for a month and doing four loads in one day. Here's what decorators can do for you and how you can help them, There are many misconceptions about what landscape architects do. Or you could create a dragons lair, a mosaic gallery, a party in a jungle Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3413466/m=23/need-help-salt-sys-pool-is-disintegrating-decorative-boulders, My Houzz: Modern and Moody Nostalgia in Salt Lake City, The Cure for Houzz Envy: Kitchen Touches Anyone Can Do, 10 Tips to Start a Garden Can-Do Ideas for Beginners, Landscape Paving 101: Travertine Keeps Its Cool in Warm Climates, Enjoy Your Summer Garden Heres What to Do in July, What to Do for Mom Around the House on Mothers Day, 10 Things Decorators Want You to Know About What They Do, 13 Extra-Cool Things to Do With a Backyard. I am CPO certified.

If youd like to learn more about the different types of pools, check out our comprehensive ebook "Comparing Fiberglass, Concrete, and Vinyl Liner Pools in the Modern Age. It discusses cost, design, durability, installation basically any aspect youll want to compare if you make a big pool decision. One big factor is the level of salt that the pool owner maintains. Typically, the harder and denser stones last longer. I have seen corrosion of metals, such as stainless, as a result of stray currents. It makes sense that even from the same quarry, the quality can vary from high grade to low grade. With a salt water pool, the owner MUST maintain a proper pH or the pool will scale, stain brown and destroy the cell. Search The size of this molecule cannot fit between the clay particles. chlorine modernize Sometimes people will advocate salt chlorine generators as no-maintenance. If you have a concrete pool, are building on virgin earth, do not live in an area that gets freezing winter conditions, and your builder will pressure test to a MINIMUM of 60 PSI for 1 hour then I would consider the infloor cleaner. I can say though that salt systems are being unfairly blamed for these long standing issues. SECRET #7 One size does not fit all and salt generators use both high voltage AND high amperage outputs. (We've had pools at two other properties, and I'm realizing that I'm looking to repeat the same.) But it branches off the, Concrete has its own set of issues, but lets think about those, for a moment. Not in the sense that there are thousands of concrete pools failing across the country. We're going to assume youre taking care of your pool and watching your water chemistry. In my opinion chlorine is much more damaging to pool liners, pipes, decks, sidewalks ext. The obvious weekly use of muriatic acid is combined with the not so obvious need to use cyanuric acid to guarantee your salt chlorine generator can achieve 1-3 ppm chlorine residual in your pool. Keep up the outstanding work and you will forever keep us as customers. S, and wear away at the metal. With over 40 manufacturers in the salt water generator business the cell warranty ranges from 1 to 3 years and the replacement costs are from $500 self-installed to $800 installed by a dealer. I highly recommend Ryan and Blue Science!! Salt water is a tiny, bolt on device that can be added to your pool now, or at any time in the future quickly, easily and inexpensively. The pH should be 7.4-7.6. ", "I just want to start off saying how impressed I am with this company. See how that might be an issue? I have seen pools where the saltwater has damaged stamped concrete, natural stones, and coping. A unit too small will mean algae problems later on if you don't run it for longer periods each day or add extra chlorine on a regular basis. first, how often does that need to be sealed and second, does the flagstone spa spillover need to be sealed as well???? I want to give a 5 star rating to our pool guy,Charles,he has been a true professional and has taken the time to answer my questions and deliver the best customer service possible. Can you say for sure it is due to salt? a source of evening relaxation, to a morning fitness spot, to a social status symbol. We needed new pool lights and other types of pool repairs. I instruct classes in Water Chemistry and Testing Methods, Pumps and Filters, and our own Pool Pilot Flight School (all of which are approved continuing education credits, required for Florida contractors). ", "Nick Stephenson was so responsive to our needs. Give us a call today. He would not rest until we were satisfied. For example some flagstones have a higher amount of sand while others have more clay. The difference is inhowyou put the chlorine in the water. travertine). But honestly, theres no such thing. And it was Kevin in fact, who found and brought him back. Terms & Conditions Contact We believe it does. Fact - All salt water generator cells require cleaning every 90 days. However, on top of that, we think salt water does further shorten the lifespan of a plaster finish (or any cementitious pool surface) specifically. I started an 'Ideabook' for pools surrounds that I like. I am talking about chlorine pool levels over time on concrete.

Over time of hot and cold changes - it not just time - it really just temperature changes, the clay particles will swell and contract. | Our clients, our priority. Some can be hard and durable while others can be in porous and others flaky. With a salt system, you really, really, super have to keep an eye on your chlorine level.